Curse

Caco-Cola · May 30, 2005, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Tell me, why do you need every rune unlocked?

So you can create an ubar PvP character right off the bat, right? Same reason you want every skill.

IMO I would much prefer just having minor runes, not as big of a hit on your HP.

Everyone wants to be the most ubar 1337 guy in the game but not work for it.

Astounding, really. I've yet to see any serious game (Free servers excluded) out there that just gives you every item and skill in the game on a silver platter and I certainly hope Guild Wars isn't the first.

Gwden: Reason I don't want it is because they'd hit "UASaI" (Unlock All Skills and Items, which is what people are really wanting when they say UAS) and then they have every skill.

Well that's fine except when a level 1 is using Hundred Blades in the Charr missions.

gwden · May 30, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caco-Cola

Gwden: Reason I don't want it is because they'd hit "UASaI" (Unlock All Skills and Items, which is what people are really wanting when they say UAS) and then they have every skill.

Well that's fine except when a level 1 is using Hundred Blades in the Charr missions.

I always thought the whole idea behind UAS would to give the PvP-only characters the ability to unlock all skills. I assumed the PvE characters would be left alone. This way the PvE can play though the game traditionally and PvP can jump into the 'endgame' without being forced beat all of those missions. If PvE people want to enter the PvP aspect, they can use their current PvE chars, OR just make new PvP characters with their PvE char's skills to grab the best gear if they don't have it yet.

Luggage · May 30, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

So doing FedEx quests for skills ain't grinding? Wha?

Wasn't grinding doing the same thing over and over again in the hope to get the right drop or spawn?

Never saw anyone saying that: "do this, get that - guarantied" is grind.
Tho I don't read _all_ the grind posts for sure...

DrSLUGFly · May 30, 2005, 04:31 PM // 16:31

blah blah blah...
PvP players need to realize that PvE players enjoy the levelling, questing and exploring. It's NOT grinding.
PvE players need to realize that PvP players are being forced to play a game they don't want to so they can play the game they do want to. They MUST grind.

Why argue, we have to hit a common ground and figure out how to help each other.

Caco-Cola · May 30, 2005, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Gwden: But as it is now skills are universal.

And letting PvP characters just create the best character with the best skills with the best equipment would give them a SEVERE advantage over PvE characters.

Besides if everyone would have the Best in PvP wouldn't that effectively make everything else useless? Why not do away with runes and bonus weapons and everything period and make everything equal? There'd be no reason to have runes or bonus weapons when everyone's using the same builds. They'd all be equally as good and thus lose their reason to exist.

It'd just make lesser items, ya know, purple and blue and heaven forbid, white, items useless.

I have an idea. Next time everyone logs in let's just let them scroll through the lists of items and they hand pick every item they want, every armor they want. They can even pick whether they want a 20% damage bonus when HP is > 50% or less than 50% on any item.

Gold, blue, purple it doesn't matter. You can pick ANY item, ANY rune, ANY thing.

How much fun would that be?

Majority of PvErs would say none.

Majority of PvPers would say a lot.

We're talking about two different worlds here and people like me (those who enjoy both aspects of the game) lose either way. They're guaranteed to have at least one aspect of their gameplay totally ruined.

DrSLUGFly · May 30, 2005, 04:38 PM // 16:38

lol... introduce a LAS (lock all skills) button?

Caco-Cola · May 30, 2005, 04:39 PM // 16:39

What good would that do?

Xellos · May 30, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luggage

Wasn't grinding doing the same thing over and over again in the hope to get the right drop or spawn?

Never saw anyone saying that: "do this, get that - guarantied" is grind.
Tho I don't read _all_ the grind posts for sure...

Let's just say the quests are so simplified, it may as well be grinding. Guild Wars biggest weakness in PVE is that it doesn't feel like your doing anything other then advancing. The places are static. About the only big place to change was tutorial -> ascalon which isn't reversible. The non-mission quests are usually very stale, with no open-ended outcomes. To be short, no one gives a damn about the diablo 2 world in pve. No one cares about those stupid gossips, the npcs, the walking people, because their not immersive. No amount of lore and crap is going to be cool to the majority of gamers if it does not intertwine heavily into the gameplay, which at the moment, doesn't. Your more worried about doing the objective, then about why, how, where, when, etc etc. You don't question your mission, you just do it period. You can't choose how you do it, you just do it period. All that adds to staleness.

Even WoW has a better fedex system then GW. At least when your done the quest, you get to choose your reward. In this game, it's set rewards. Oh how nice, losing to the game that came before you.

gwden · May 30, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caco-Cola

Gwden: But as it is now skills are universal.

And letting PvP characters just create the best character with the best skills with the best equipment would give them a SEVERE advantage over PvE characters.

Besides if everyone would have the Best in PvP wouldn't that effectively make everything else useless? Why not do away with runes and bonus weapons and everything period and make everything equal? There'd be no reason to have runes or bonus weapons when everyone's using the same builds. They'd all be equally as good and thus lose their reason to exist.

It'd just make lesser items, ya know, purple and blue and heaven forbid, white, items useless.

The game emphasizes skill over grind (or whatever the catch phrase was) so if everyone has the best then everyone will be balanced in terms of gear and the only way people will gain an advantage and win is through stragetic skill choices and team work.

Yes, PvP chars will have an advantage over PvE until PvE gets good gear and skills, but PvE players are not limited to PvE. They are still able to create a PvP character, select the skills they had on their PvE chars, and offset the gear disadvantage. This disadvantage exists right now.

I have a max level monk with all the skills I need, but I don't use it in PvP. What I do is create a new PvP monk to make sure my gear is good enough to make me competitive. Technically, I could spend my money and buy good gear and use my monk in PvP, but then I'll be missing out on fun stuff, like different names, character look customizations, different armors, free dyes, and unlimited refund points to play around with. The fact that there are four (or so?) different armor sets available in PvP char creation makes it even more unbalanced for PvE as I would never be able to afford all of those sets without resorting to some serious farming. And yes, there are cases where I'd want to use "+armor against elemental" over "+armor against phys" sets.

Caco-Cola · May 30, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

So why have all that selection?

Keep skills, do away with the rest.

Give everyone the same hammer, same axe, same wand, same helmet, same everything so that no one has an edge over the other person except in their skill usage.

gwden · May 30, 2005, 05:09 PM // 17:09

The reason PvE doesn't have best everything right off the bat is because it would unbalance the missions. The game would become too easy if you were to kill lvl 3 mobs with max dmg weapons and wouldn't be much fun. To keep a certain difficulty level in the game, everyone is given weapons and gear that is appropriate for their, and mobs', levels. As PvE chars progress, they are given a chance to obtain higher dmg weapons, and eventually, a chance to get the same weapons that are available to PvP chars.

Xellos · May 30, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caco-Cola

So why have all that selection?

Keep skills, do away with the rest.

Give everyone the same hammer, same axe, same wand, same helmet, same everything so that no one has an edge over the other person except in their skill usage.

That's pretty much exactly what the PVP crowd wants. You should search for the old grind ones, most people like Nash already stated that's pretty much exactly what they want.

I don't see the problem with that idea, of course you might not, because you might feel that having some phat lewt makes you feel special. What, you don't like having that feeling where all that loot you got from arid sea isn't gonna help ya?

Remember, PVE characters can participate in PVP, PVP cannot participate in PVE. You aren't affected period. It's just that material status feeling you want.

If your going to argue, at least use something better as your lead arguement, not something that has been beaten to death by newbies and gurus alike. Search is your friend.

Caco-Cola · May 30, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

I don't see the problem with that idea, of course you might not, because you might feel that having some phat lewt makes you feel special. What, you don't like having that feeling where all that loot you got from arid sea isn't gonna help ya?

Search is your friend too.

I've stated time and time again that I don't have those special items, nor do I need them or even want them.

I don't see how an extra +10% on a staff that does 20 damage will affect anything.

I get 2 extra damage, whoopty freakin do. I don't use my staff often enough to warrant such a small advantage.

The only 'phat lewt' I've gotten is a Gold hammer which my necromancer (which I rarely play, mind you) uses.

And by the way, I don't even know what the Arid Sea is nor why it has any significance (I suppose it was a farming ground?) so yah, try again.

Xellos · May 30, 2005, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caco-Cola

Search is your friend too.

I've stated time and time again that I don't have those special items, nor do I need them or even want them.

I don't see how an extra +10% on a staff that does 20 damage will affect anything.

I get 2 extra damage, whoopty freakin do. I don't use my staff often enough to warrant such a small advantage.

The only 'phat lewt' I've gotten is a Gold hammer which my necromancer (which I rarely play, mind you) uses.

And by the way, I don't even know what the Arid Sea is nor why it has any significance (I suppose it was a farming ground?) so yah, try again.

Sorry, but you see that citizen status you hold? That means you probably haven't made enough posts for me to even know you, let alone search and remember your own personal history. Search is for the grind threads of the past, which will show you exactly how much people support a balanced pvp play. Alot.

Secondly, your looking at this from a PVE perspective. In PVP, all PVP characters are already created equal, max armour max weapons, it's only the item mods and runes and skills that are missing. You wouldn't see gold items ever. It'd be pure 100% PVP items.

Thirdly, I can already tell your a PVE player, so there's no point in going on. 5 months from now, check up again, see if you have the same response as you do now.

Helios · May 30, 2005, 05:34 PM // 17:34

For those of you that ignored the link in the first post I made and are still complaining, you will be happy to know that there will be some decreased difficulty in obtaining elites. You can find it in the official Guild Wars website.

http://www.guildwars.com/news/gameupdates.html

Caco-Cola · May 30, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Yah i did do a PvE character to get the storyline. I like that portion of the game.

But you act as if I've never played in HoH, never made a PvP character, never been in a battle with other players (correction, against other players...and no not the Academy mission either).

Oh and btw PvP characters can easily get gold items from their PvE counter parts.

So it's still unbalanced really.

Xellos · May 30, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helios

For those of you that ignored the link in the first post I made and are still complaining, you will be happy to know that there will be some decreased difficulty in obtaining elites. You can find it in the official Guild Wars website.

http://www.guildwars.com/news/gameupdates.html

Depends on the location, if they just shove 6 more in snake dance, that doesn't do a damn thing unless you like snake dance.

Helios · May 31, 2005, 12:37 AM // 00:37

They claim that they will make it so that bosses will require less travel time to get to them.

AirOnG · May 31, 2005, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caco-Cola

Tell me, why do you need every rune unlocked?

So you can create an ubar PvP character right off the bat, right? Same reason you want every skill.

This is a common PvEer misconception. PvPers simply want to play on a level playing field where no one has an artifical disadvantage or advantage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caco-Cola

And letting PvP characters just create the best character with the best skills with the best equipment would give them a SEVERE advantage over PvE characters.

That's why you only let UAS players play with other UAS players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caco-Cola

Besides if everyone would have the Best in PvP wouldn't that effectively make everything else useless? Why not do away with runes and bonus weapons and everything period and make everything equal? There'd be no reason to have runes or bonus weapons when everyone's using the same builds. They'd all be equally as good and thus lose their reason to exist.

This is a logical fallacy. How is everything useless if everyone is on a level playing field in PvP? It makes absolutely no sense how the conclusion follows from the premises. You also make the false statement that everyone would be using the exact same build in a level playing field.

Helios, those changes do very little to ease the grind. It will still take literally (I am literally not making this up; I cannot emphasize this enough) hundreds of hours of repetitive, monotonous farming to get what you need to be on a level playing field in PvP. One can only hope the other unannounced changes actually help.